Furler line friction under stanchion bases

[landes_h]

Would that thing do the job?
http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=4745&taxid=544
expensive though (like everything for a boat).

[MarkTheBike]

Well spotted, Horst. That's exactly what's needed. Should be fitted as standard to all Bavs. You're right, it is expensive but when measured against the potential cost of MoodyMike's setup, it's not that much more. However, I do like the cam cleat on his version. What we need is a combination of the two (and the bankloan to pay for it!).

[philipa]

I use a single spinlock WL/2 to guide the line onto the drum (https://www.spinlock.co.uk/en-us/categories/organisers-1/product_groups/wl - the "sheave" version). Works pretty well, and cheaper than harken.

[landes_h]

I might get that Harken Ratchet Block, but put it at the front as first roller after the Furlex. By that anything else can remain as is.
Project for next season...needs budget approval by head of sailing committee  or a sneaky purchase during winter season.

[Nigel]

I might get that Harken Ratchet Block, but put it at the front as first roller after the Furlex...

I've got an unused one, 90% of cheapest price you can find.

[landes_h]

Sent you PM.

[Odysseus]

For the people who want another fix to the issue.

Line goes over combing to winch, works fine for me the kast 6 years.

Odysseus
Bav 38

[Salty]

....................As for using a winch to pull in the furling cord, I wouldn't recommend doing that, it is possible to put so much effort into the winch that the furling line will break. My boat used to go out on charter, prior to and just after I bought it, and that's how I know. It also resulted in a lot of other damage which is another story altogether !!

I mentioned about using a winch in reply no 2 to this thread, and the dangers of putting too much effort into the winch. My boat used to go out on charter, and the couple who chartered it got caught out in bad weather and resorted to winching in the furling line. The line was in good condition, but for unknown reasons the "finger tips" on one of the "cupped hands" that "Mark the Bike" wrote about had curled over, and the Furlex 200 system jammed in that direction. They lead the line to the winch and the in due course with all the effort they applied, the furling line broke. This allowed the sail to unfurl and in the worsening weather and with an uncontrollable sail they untied the knots in the ends of the Genoa sheets allowing the sheets and the sail to fly uncontrolledly. The sheets went over the top of the mast in the wind, taking the VHF antenna and the wind instrument with them and the sail was shredded during the bad weather. In their initial haste to deal with the situation the helmsperson stood up, forgetting that the seat had not been resecured since their last port call, and so they had to say goodbye to it. The bad weather tore one of the windows out of the sprayhood, and when they did eventually find a port where they could shelter, the short lead via the starboard fairlead and a short steep swell resulted in the fairlead joining the helmsmans seat. Okay, some of that might not be directly attributable to using a winch to haul in the furling line, but if a winch is used on something that was never intended to be winched, there is a very real risk of using too much effort and destroying the job rather than improving the situation.
My point is that if you have to use a winch to haul in the furling line, then it's likely there is a problem elsewhere that has been missed and which you need to find and fix.

[MarkTheBike]

...line goes over coaming to winch...

Yes, that's what I ended up doing but still had a jam-up every now and again so it did need further investigation. I also like to keep a loop of jib sheet round the winch to reduce flogging as it unwinds but having the reefing line on as well had potential for more excitement than I was prepared for.

Salty - I think that would be more exciting than I would ever wish for. From your description, it sounds as though they had the same 'loop round the fingertips' that I had but winching it would be enough to pull the cupped hand back on itself and from that point on it would be immoveable. I'm not surprised the line broke. p.s. I assume they haven't been back?

[Salty]

...Salty - I think that would be more exciting than I would ever wish for. From your description, it sounds as though they had the same 'loop round the fingertips' that I had but winching it would be enough to pull the cupped hand back on itself and from that point on it would be immoveable. I'm not surprised the line broke. p.s. I assume they haven't been back?

...more excitingt than I could ever wish for.
Yes, but amongst other things I always take a spare pair of underpants with me when I go sailing !!

.....I assume they haven't been back?
Well they didn't get much chance, because after putting everything back in order, the next but one set of charterers hired two boats from the charter firm, and then played silly beggars heading towards each other to see who would blink first. My boat ended up with a hole in the bow while the other had the side flex inwards during the collision which wrecked some of its internal furniture. At that point my boat was withdrawn from chartering instantly and permanently.

[Mirror45184]

Hi Mark, I have never experienced the furling line getting caught between the spool/drum and the fingers/cup. When unfurling the jib I generally put 1 - 2 turns on the primary winch to provide a bit of friction, depending upon the wind strength. Also do a lot of single handed sailing.
Also noted the discussion on the lead from the furler to the first stanchion. I use a ring floating on a short loop of dynema which I spliced up for myself. It can just be seen on the aft leg of the pulpit.
Cheers

[MarkTheBike]

Hi Mark

That looks like a nice job, I like the idea of the ring floating rather than fixed to allow the spool to fill uniformly, unlike my fixed bullseye. It does look as though the port-side leg of your pulpit is a little further forward than mine so you are able to be a little higher. 

[Mirror45184]

Hi Mark, Tha is also the good thing about having the floating ring on what is effectively a prussic loop. It can be slid up and down the rail to get the best lead angle.
Cheers

[MarkTheBike]

Hi Mark, Tha is also the good thing about having the floating ring on what is effectively a prussic loop. It can be slid up and down the rail to get the best lead angle.

Agreed. I think the bullseye's days are numbered as it can only be used at the bottom of the pulpit leg or it would be angled down too much. Perhaps I can reuse the bullseye at the back somewhere.

[Yngmar]

Selden has articulated stanchion blocks:

[MarkTheBike]

That's great, Yngmar. Thanks for the info.

An update if it's of any interest - after my changes listed above, it was EASY (honestly) to furl in a F7 over the w/e. Yes, the line was snatched out of my hand, but it didn't jam (apart from flicking the line over the bow and around the anchor!). The drum remained free. First time I've tried it in a stronger breeze and it worked a treat. 

[Mirror45184]

GREAT news

[Ziffius]

My bav39 has the furling line through the stanchion base but I think it's just a hole there - I always have to bit of effort into furling, going to have to look at upgrading if it makes for an effortless furl

[MarkTheBike]

My bav39 has the furling line through the stanchion base but I think it's just a hole there - I always have to bit of effort into furling, going to have to look at upgrading if it makes for an effortless furl

Having the little blocks attached to the stanchion bases makes a big difference and they're reasonably cheap. The holes in the stanchion bases aren't polished so the line will drag even more. Definitely worth it if you do nothing else.

[SorinCT]

Gents, good tips on this topic, much appreciated!
I am having issues also, first attributed to friction in the stanchion guides but upon later investigation it seems i am getting a messy wind on the spool, regardless of keeping the furling line under friction during unfurling. It looks like it's winding "cross way" and getting caught over the fingers as one side of the coil gets larger.
Planning to replace the line and do a visual inspection on the furling drum to see what's going on.

[SorinCT]

Aaaand the results...
The cup-shaped plastic arround the spool is broken (from before). Other half maybe long time ago overboard. Not sure if it will help to replace with a new original spare.
Other parts look a bit tired also with some strange gaps and clearances but they will get sorted in time. Bearings need lubrication for sure.
Also, the line is washed and shampooed to regain some softness. Fingers crossed ..

[Yngmar]

I think it should help to replace the missing spring plate. Those two together push the rope into shape as it gets wound onto the reel and prevent it crossing over and making a messy furl.

[SorinCT]

Difficult to get Selden spare parts in my area so might have to deal with some DIY solution. Contemplating on adding a "feeding block" to guide the line at a better angle to the drum as it does not look too good coming from the forward stanchion base (original design).

[Mirror45184]

Hi Sorin,

Refer to my post of 12SEP16, use a ring and loop on the pulpit for the final lead.
Cheers

[SorinCT]

For the past few days i have tried using guides and a block and it seems to be a little bit better although not as easy as as it should. Bearings are lubricated, line was washed and now more flexible but the only thing missing is the spring.
To be fair, most of the times if there is some resistance in the furling line while wrapping on the drum, the coils are spread more evenly and lead to less snags.
I think it's up to adjusting forestay, backstay and the jib halyard.
Any recomandations on where to start?