dedicated fresh water toilet tank

[jeffatoms2]

In the "Fair Winds" category, a quick, unofficial survey of boat owners across the spectrum indicates that the number one item that people dislike about boating is stinky marine head and related holding tank smells.  It can be a real compromise and a deal breaker for some to avoid using their boats.

In summary, it is due to four things: first, decaying marine life due to the use of a saltwater flush, second, old warn out permeating waste hoses, lack of odor eliminators and finally the location of the exhaust breather which for some stinky reason Bavaria put just port of the cockpit combing of our cockpit.

We have mitigated the off gassing caused by the use of salt water flushing by opting to use fresh water; specifically we have seven one gallon water jugs in the corresponding shower stall which give the added benefit of indicating how full the holding tank is.

The problem is the seven jugs, full or empty, are awkward and messy and just a hassle that are in the way.  I would like to add a dedicated 7 gallon fresh water tank under the sealed floor of the head with a deck fill just aft of the existing deck level wast pump out.

So far, I have acquired a 35 liter flexible water tank from HiNelson in Italy and a new deck fixture.  I've looked into the space with my boroscope and it looks doable. 

Curious has anyone else freed up that space on the floor in front of the sink and toilet or even better, added a dedicated fresh water tank for this purpose.

If so, what can you say before I proceed by cutting a flush hatch into the floor?  SCARY!

Hoping for some experiential feedback.  Right now it looks like my access port/hatch will be along the raised stringer/chase separating the shower basin from the head floor.

Still struggling adding photos which I have and will do when I figure it out.

[Yngmar]

Our friends Nautitech 46 was freshwater flushing from the factory, because it's a pretty wastefully set up boat, watermaker, generator to power it, big fuel and water tanks to feed all that, predictably resulting in weight problems (catamarans are more sensitive to those than monos).

Their toilet (3) smelled the same as ours, which was not much at all. Better spend the money on odor-proof hoses, making sure the holding tank doesn't leak a drop and old spills are completely cleaned up and disinfected, including whatever has run down into the bilge and the hollow stringers in ancient times. Then there's nowhere to smell from except during business hours 

[jeffatoms2]

All great comments, thank you.  Regarding the monitoring of the holding tank capacity, do you or others have any fail-proof guidance to knowing when the tank is full?  We had one overfill in the past and it trickled down into the dish cupboard above the sink.   Truly disgusting and avowed, never again! 

Again, a design failure for many reasons in placement of the breather vent if you ask me.

[Yngmar]

WTF does your breather go to? No wonder it stinks! Breather must go overboard. Starboard rear topside on our 40 Ocean. When the onion soup comes out of there, tank is full. Indicators inside the tank do not work for long, there are capacitive ones that get taped to the outside of the (plastic) tank that do work. Never bothered fitting one though, we had a rough idea of how much we put in and when it was full and emptied whenever there was an opportunity, it rarely got to overflowing.

[Laysula]

Best thing is to use your boat and therefore your heads regularly.

[jeffatoms2]

100% agreement.   we use the boat regularly.  Not a week goes by that we aren't aboard for at least a day.

[jeffatoms2]

Still seeking a viable solution to this issue.  Wondering if anyone has accessed the outward bulkhead behind the head and between the hull?

[J.B.]

Hello,
Maybe a solution like this could help solve your issue?
https://www.svb24.com/en/seasmart-marine-cleaning-system-for-seawater-toilets.html

N.b. No experience on our part yet with this solution.

J.B.

[jeffatoms2]

After a lot of probing, it seems i have found my solution, though id like to run it by the rest of you.  Under the navigation desk is a floor panel that is approximately 24x24 inches and appears deep enough to hold my 35 liter Plastimo water bladder.  The only problem is i would have to drill a few holes in the stringer grid to run source and use water lines.

Specfically, i believe id run the inlet up to a deck fill above the nav station.  Maybe forwar and join one of the holes for the bilge pump or diagonal under the cabinet.  The 1/2 inch line could go the sameindirect way or aft, under the shower pan and aft, to a mini, wall mounted pump switch behind the head.


Besides the pros and cons of fresh vs saltwater flushing which isnt up for debate (though i appreciate thekind and well intended ideas) are there any thoughts about placement of the 35 liter bladder, deck fill, cut-outs and pump?

Photo 1 is bladder resting in well. Photo 2 is the empty well and photo 3 is how we have managed sourcing fresh water flushing with gallon jugs in the shower stall.

[Happysailor]

I find it quite daring to drill holes into the structure of the boat which originally were not intended to be there. Now it has been completely sealed and laminated and this is destructed when holes are drilled, potentially creating a new issue for the future with a solution for now. Yes, later boats have tubing into the ships stringers and webs, but these have been part of the boat from construction. So strenghwise it would not be a too big concern.. but moist and no drainage from non accessible points?
(Is your deck storage locker on the same side as your head?)

[jeffatoms2]

Thank you, Happy Sailor, for the considerations.  Yes, the aft locker is and it may be a better solution than i had considered.  More pondering.....ironically, the magical capacity required to avoid cayastrophe is no more than 7 US gallons, feed line included, meaning, the further away the deck/transom fill from where big tube meets holding bladder, the less space we will allow in the bladder, as 7 hallons is our max.  When yhe fresh water pump stops pumping, its time to pump out.  These measurements are time proven and have never failed/caused flooding.

All that being said, im also adding a watermaker this winter which will require some thru hull modification, a lift pump and a strainer.  That project is coming along well (maybe a separate post).

[Happysailor]

Completely another solution would be to properly re-route the breather overboard. Making a hole in the hull is less painfull to my opinion. If you want to have a freshwater flush, expand the usual freshwater capacity by having 2 tanks, the usual one PS aft and 1 additional one under the fwd bunk. Combined with watermaking capacity your can also have a solution which works?

[jeffatoms2]

HappySailor, im energized to check out lining the bottom of the rear lazarette as you suggested.  That is alternative #5.  The 38 Ocean has adequate water tankage.  My goal is to have a dedicated 7 gallon head system and clear out the seven gallon jugs from the shower stall.   When the tank empties, the flush line dries up and its time to pump out.

Toilet smells are the honest, unspoken bane of small sailboats.  We cannot tolerate them and don't really have an issue.  That said, the waste lines are 25+ years old and will soon stink so we have that on the horizon.  The golden rule for us is dont test the limit of the system.

Why this matters?  We live on the Puget Sound and Salish Sea.  The two of us have called the shores home for a combined 120 years!  The problem we are faced with is the most beautiful cruising grounds we love are basically 100's of rock islands without much fresh ground water and even less to share.  We love to cruise here and a self-sufficient yacht, albeit 38 feet, is our goal.

Thanks for the great ideas!