Where I took my 2007 Bav30 on her maiden run this year I am seeing white smoke coming out . I cannot replicate in neutral only when in gear . Can anyone tell me what I should I look for in order to triage the issue . Thanks
Might be steam from lack of waterflow through the heat exchanger. Cause would be a restricted waterflow, so check strainer, impeller, hoses, intake (saildrive leg can foul up inside from lack of use) and heat exchanger tube stack, in that order.
What he said
Thanks
As Yngmar says, but also check the exhaust elbow for carbon build up or corrosion restricting the flow. Take the exhaust pipe off and use a phone camera to take pics up the hole to look for blockages, and also stick a finger up to probe around. Its pretty easy to take the elbow off for a more detailed exam, but you'll need a fresh gasket to replace it.
If you still cannot find the answer then the next step is to get your injectors checked, the white smoke could be unburnt diesel. This happened to me and I believe was caused by poor cooling causing the engine to run hot, leading to damaged injectors.
I had my mechanic onboard today with no new results . He replaced the seal around the impeller, it seems Volvo change the seal for a new one and did send the old model . He checked the heat exchanger where he said he could put his hands and either end meaning it was not that hot. The coolant was fine and the engine started fine . However when we reved to about 2500 it started to smoke again ? We added new diesel to the tank . The mechanic said he would be back in a couple of weeks to some sort of system where they use chemicals in the engine to breakdown calcium buildup. The mechanic said use the boat at a lower rpm , others have said go out and run the boat hard ? I may call another mechanic more familiar with the Penta ? Any other ideas like where would I look for calcium buildup , can I remove any hoses , when it runs it just sounds like the muffler is loud. Thanks
How much water discharge do you have from the exhaust? It should be a decent amount every second or so, not necessarily a constant stream, but a good plonk when it does come.
Does the smoke dissipate quickly? If so could indicate that it is steam rather than smoke.
If it is insufficient water flow then try a poking a long piece of stiff wire down the raw water intake to clear any blockage from sail drive intake.
It'll be the water intake. Take the inlet pipe off at the seacock and see what the flow of water is like. It should be like a fountain.
If it's more of a dribble, then you have a blocked leg (any mechanic worth his salt would have done this FIRST!
Put your dinghy pump hose over the barb fitting and get someone to stamp on the pump half a dozen times to blow any crap back down and out of the leg.
Then see how much water comes out. If you now have a fountain, you have solved the problem.
The waterway within the saildrive leg is a favourite home for mussels and other marine organisms which once they have taken up residence are a devil to clear. The waterway has a bend or two in it such that it is not simply a matter of poking something down it from inside. Every lift out I make a point of jet washing through each of the water inlet holes, and have a set of long bottle brushes to help persuade all squatters to find alternative accommodation. A problem with mussels is they have two shells which will remain securely attached even though the original occupant has deceased or left home. Sometimes those shells become detached and on my B36 (2002), the cooling water filter is of a particularly bad design such that it is possible to put the filter back after cleaning and get it wrong to the point that these shells can get past. From there they travel through the cooling water pump and end up congregating at the entrance to the heat exchanger. On one occasion some 70 to 80% of the heat exchanger tubes were blocked, and a high temperature alarm sounded and externally, steam was visible in the exhaust. Fortunately for me I'd recently changed (at the time) the Volvo alarm panel, and the new one actually worked and warned me of the problem. On that occasion I connected a mains water hose to the connection on the inlet valve and let it run for ten minutes to try to flush out the incumbents. Since then I've fitted an exhaust temperature monitor and alarm system (about £100 from Nasa), and it's brilliant where any increase in cooling temperature is immediately visible on screen, and an alarm will sound should the temperature exceed your preset limit.
If your boat stays idle for long periods, it's odds on that the nice cosy waterway within the saildrive will become a new housing estate!!
In US a lot of mechanics are not savvy on saildrives . What you all say sounds totally logical that has been my biggest fear all along. The amount of growth around the intakes every year has been enormous , this year I added formaldehyde to the paint . The smoke is like steam . Now that I have a specific task to ask to be done it may be easier to find someone to do this blow out the saildrive . I will keep you posted thanks for the help
Launched 2007, if the exhaust elbow has nor been replaced I would be starting there. They do get a large build up of carbon which blocks the slot where the cooling water is injected into the exhaust gas. It is not always obvious where this is if you have not seen a new one. The exhaust elbow may have also corroded which wold mean that the water does not mix properly with the exhaust.
Replaced the exhaust elbow on my 2009 B40 in 2016. Similar issues for a while which eventually also became a loss of power! DSCN1129 is the new one looking up the outlet end, you can see the water slot. DSCCN1126 is the old one no comment needed!
There is a supplier in the US who fabricates stainless steel ones as an option.
Cheers
Another place to look for this problem (although less likely since you say it happens only in high RPM) - check the coolant level - if it drops over time you may have a leak of coolant into the cylinders.
I replaced the elbow last year. The mechanic said coolant was fine. When trying to find blockage in the sail drive , do I hire a diver to go below the boat or when I remove the thru cock from above is that sufficient ?
No, just take the pipe off on the inside, where it connects to the seacock, put the dinghy hose onto the seacock stub and then pump like crazy. This is easy to do yourself. You don't need to pay a mechanic to do it.
Ok I will give it try , I hope I don't sink the boat
Quote from: Vinnie45 on June 25 2018, 12:24
Ok I will give it try , I hope I don't sink the boat
Not much chance of that, the inlet valve on the sail drive is not very far below sea level, so the water will just run in gently at best and down to a dribble or nothing at worst. If things start to get out of hand you just shut the sea valve.
Very handy though to have a redundant wine bottle cork to hand as a "just in case," and a good reason to drink a bottle of wine before you start the job 🤪 !!
How about blocking the underwater inlets (fins both sides and hole) suck up or pump out water and filling overnight with white vinegar (neat). It will dissolve all marine growth. If you manage, repeat exercise twice. You will hear a lot of gurgling while the job is in process so it will be opportune to celebrate with some whisky while the vinegar gobbles up the pesky barnacles! I successfully cleaned my sail drive this way while on the hard. It might be a little more difficult while afloat but I'm sure it's possible. Good luck!
Ok I have tried everything . Now someone has told me I should adjust the valves . I went to the manual and it left blank every 500 hours to adjust valves . I went online and could find no videos or information of what to do . Can someone tell me what are the valves and what needs to be done .
Thanks ignorant Vinnie
Hi
Does the white smoke roll over the surface of the water? Does it have a smell (light) smell of sulfur? If yes its possibly incomplete combustion of the fuel due to poor injectors. I had a white smoke issue at revs with my MD2020 when its was around 13 years old. The issue was the injectors. I drew all three and took them to City Auto in Plymouth, a local Bosh car center, who tested them and confirmed injector pattern was poor. They ordered new nozzles, cleaned up injector body, re-set new nozzles and returned them to me with new copper washers in 48hours all for £150. I put them back in and problem solved, no more white smoke and engine running smooth.
On the other hand, I spoke to an engineer at the yard where my boat is laid up over winter, as my MD2020D is 16 years old and I was concerned that the injectors might need cleaning or adjustment, and his words were "if there's nothing obviously wrong, then leave them well alone as fixing them often resulted in more trouble than was there before." So I left well alone, but then I don't have any white smoke. But they did adjust the valve timing (tappets), and the engine runs very smoothly.
What does it mean to adjust the tappets ? I don't even know what part it is or instructions how to do it.
Quote from: Vinnie45 on July 12 2018, 20:34
What does it mean to adjust the tappets ? I don't even know what part it is or instructions how to do it.
Vinnie, on the top of your engine there should be a black plastic screw top cap that you take off whenever you want to add some more lubricating oil. This plastic cap fits into a long green cover that runs in a fore and aft line along the length of your engine top. Underneath that cover (rocker box cover) are the valves and valve operating mechanisms that look like the drawing in the first photograph below taken from an engine workshop instruction manual. A rotating shaft within that cover causes metal arms (rockers) to rock up and down. When those arms move down they press on the tops of the valves, (tappets), causing the valves to open for a very short period of time to allow air to be drawn into the cylinders or exhaust gasses to leave. Adjustments can be made as shown in the wording within the photo.
If you have not actually seen an engineer make those adjustments, and from the questions you have asked I'm guessing you have not, then I cannot stress highly enough that you should leave them alone and ask a qualified engine mechanic to check them for you.
Quote from: Salty on July 12 2018, 19:29
On the other hand, I spoke to an engineer at the yard where my boat is laid up over winter, as my MD2020D is 16 years old and I was concerned that the injectors might need cleaning or adjustment, and his words were "if there's nothing obviously wrong, then leave them well alone as fixing them often resulted in more trouble than was there before." So I left well alone, but then I don't have any white smoke. But they did adjust the valve timing (tappets), and the engine runs very smoothly.
I think your engineer is wrong. If the injector spray pattern is not right you get incomplete combustion resulting in white smoke so something is obviously wrong. The engine will not necessarily run rough either, mine sounded fine. Adjusting the tappets will not help. Pulling the injectors is a very simple task (30mins) similarly re-instating them with the correct new nozzles/tips (c£40 each) and fitted onto the reconditioned injector body with a new copper washer seal, is straight forward. How can this result in more trouble?
Thanks for the information . You are right where I would never try to do it as my boat would never be the same again. I will try to find a mechanic who has the knowledge. Thanks again
Quote from: Vinnie45 on July 13 2018, 12:48
Thanks for the information . You are right where I would never try to do it as my boat would never be the same again. I will try to find a mechanic who has the knowledge. Thanks again
To be fair I had an marine engineer mate with me when my injectors were pulled. But having seen it done/assisted, it really is a simple task (c. 30mins) to draw them and I would feel happy to do it myself if ever needed again, and i am no engineer. However, if you do have them pulled do not buy new nozzles from VP. I used City Auto in Plymouth who are a bosch centre. They were able to test the injector pattern and confirm mine was rubbish (I expected this as there was a lot of carbon around the nozzles. The ordered the new nozzles for next day, reconditioned the old injectors (blasted them back to bare metal) then fitted the new nozzles and provided them back with new copper washers...all for £150. Google injector nozzles for MD2020, should find sources at around £40/each.
Thanks for the information Ricd about the injectors. My MD2020D was new in 2002 and I doubt if the injectors have ever been checked, serviced or given so much as a second thought until I bought the boat in 2010. I've had it professionally serviced three times since then, and done the intermediate oil, filter, antifreeze, cooling water impeller and fan belt changes etc., myself. None of the professionals suggested doing anything with the injectors despite specific questions from me, and the latest comment about leaving well alone was from an engineer last winter during the lay up. The engine does run smoothly, it is very economic, there is no white smoke at all, and yesterday Friday 13th came and went very quietly and without hiccup. 💤
Quote from: Salty on July 14 2018, 21:13
Thanks for the information Ricd about the injectors. My MD2020D was new in 2002 and I doubt if the injectors have ever been checked, serviced or given so much as a second thought until I bought the boat in 2010. I've had it professionally serviced three times since then, and done the intermediate oil, filter, antifreeze, cooling water impeller and fan belt changes etc., myself. None of the professionals suggested doing anything with the injectors despite specific questions from me, and the latest comment about leaving well alone was from an engineer last winter during the lay up. The engine does run smoothly, it is very economic, there is no white smoke at all, and yesterday Friday 13th came and went very quietly and without hiccup. 💤
If the engine is running smoothly and there are no issues, such as white smoke, why would you touch the injectors. I only sought advice from my marine engineer mate when, like the OP, I started getting white smoke at higher revs. Apart from that engine ran smoothly. I had never had it professionally serviced. I did the oil, impeller, coolant, belt, filters etc myself and certainly never adjusted anything. When I called my mate to look at my white smoke issue I ran engine up to temp and revs awaiting his arrival. As soon as he got to the boat he said the injectors need attention. We changed them and thereafter all has been well. Having said all that I changed engine last year for a D1-30.
I had the same problem on my bav 30 this month, after changing the exhaust elbow, clean the heat exchange, and pay the bill.
Finally i solve it myself. The problem was in the obstruction of the water intake of the saildrive, I put water with the hose through the tube that goes from the bottom tap to the filter and problem solved.
Check if there are air bubbles in the salt water circuit you can see it through the hose.
We keep telling him this
Quote from: IslandAlchemy on July 17 2018, 07:54
We keep telling him this
The issue that needs to be decided is, is the white smoke water vapor or un-combusted fuel? If the former it will rise and dissipate as it comes out of the exhaust. If the latter then it tends to hug the water surface a bit and can have a slight diesel/sulphur smell.
Most likely unburnt fuel because the engine is not heating up properly.
Check your thermostat to make sure it is working properly.
Finally after 2 years of searching all your advice has come to be. The mechanic finally removed the intake valve ( a little apprehensive) stuck a coat hanger end down there , nothing big stuck out but there were no more air bubbles and the water out of the exhaust increased. Before I would have replaced every part of the motor now I believe I can enjoy my summer . That you all again you have been a great help .
Why not try running the engine till up to temp.
Stick your hand in the exhaust flow, the water should be warm not hot, but more importantly smell your hand, it should smell of exhaust, not be greasy and smell of unburnt diesel.
If he just poked a coat hanger down there, it will come back. You need to ut the dinghy pump or an airline on there and blow all the crap completely out of the leg.
Any update on this topic?
I'm going though the same fate. I pulled heat exchangers and cleaned them. The anti freeze was mud color. Proudly, I put everything together and had hoped it would clear up. No such luck, in addition I would my s drive oil to be gray. Concerned I changed it 4 times until proper color. But, I suspect due to being in the water without a haul out like Salty suggests, the s drive needs a good cleansing.
Cheers,
Quote from: Lyra on June 24 2018, 12:00
Another place to look for this problem (although less likely since you say it happens only in high RPM) - check the coolant level - if it drops over time you may have a leak of coolant into the cylinders.
Hi what is the solution if you have this problem please?