Seacock / skin fitting

[Lyra]

These are the Grocco fittings/seacocks that I replaced in my boat

[Lazy Pelican]

I have been having increasingly difficult times with my holding tank not clearing properly (or not at all). This was usually remedied by forcing water or compressed air into the outlet with the valve open and moving back quickly. This is no longer working and I can only conclude that the inside of the pipework is calcified to the point where movement is severely restricted. I have decided to take the boat out and replace the outlet pipe and seacock. The skin fitting looks ok on the outside but I was shocked at the poor condition of the seacock when I took a side-on photo from the inside of the hull (see attached). For those of you considering this task I have also included a photo of the parts needed to effect this replacement (using metal fittings).

Note: 1.5 inches = 38mm

I had a similar problem. It wasn't the pipe work which caused the blockage- I'd replaced this when changeing the sea cocks ( to  Trudesign ). The problem was that huge amounts of calcium had built up on the inside of the tank and slabs of calcium fallen to bottom of the tank blocking it.
We were midway thro a cruise at the time. My solution was to open the access hatch and manually remove as much of the crud as possible, aided by periodic flushing the tank thro with a hose. It's a horrible job but I ended up with a bucket full of calcium and a tank which emptied -no problems 2 years on.
I'm not looking forward to doing the same job on the ensuite!

John

[dawntreader]

Thanks John - I am expecting that too. However, for peace of mind, I am still going ahead with the replacement of the pipework/valve. I will post an update once the job is done. Scheduled for 2 week's time - can't wait!

[s/y Susanne]

Can anyone advise on the sizes for each basin or shower outlet and for the head inlet and outlet?  This would be helpful as my boat is in Greece and I am in Scotland so can't just pop down to measure.

It would be a good project to undertake on a 2032 B44 as the de-zincification in the pics really concerns me. I am assuming that all Bavaria skin fittings are more or less the same with a through-hull threaded fitting and back-nut followed by a ball-valve and then an elbow and hose or straight to hose ruff?

I am tempted by the tru-design plastic kit

Thanks
Stewart

[Yngmar]

The seacocks were 1 1/2" BSP for head and holding tank outlet and 3/4" BSP for everything else (galley/head sink, shower sump, toilet intake) with hose tails 38mm and 19mm respectively. Galley had straight tails, heads all 90° ones. If you get Tru-Design, make sure you get the "Long Thread" tails.

In fact, here's my order list:

Code Select Expand

Description Tru-Design # Bainbridge #
Skin Fitting Installation Tool 90782
Load Bearing Collar (small) 90856
Load Bearing Collar (medium) 90857
Ball Valve (manual) 3/4" BSP 90276 Q133700
Ball Valve (manual) 1 1/2" BSP 90235 Q133703
Skin Fitting Threaded (white) 3/4" BSP 90432 Q133722
Skin Fitting Threaded (white) 1 1/2" BSP 90419 Q133725
Nut backing 3/4" BSP 90482 Q135025
Nut backing 1 1/2" BSP 90488 Q135028
Tail Long Thread 90° 1 1/2" BSP to 38mm Hose 90375 Q133778
Tail Long Thread 90° 3/4" BSP to 19mm Hose 90372 Q133775
Spanner Ball Valve 3/4" 90477
Spanner Ball Valve 1 1/2" 90478 Q133791


Forget the spanners, I never needed them, but the installation tool you'll want. The backing nuts were spares in case I'd cock one of the included ones up, which I did not.

[s/y Susanne]

Yngmar
That's great info. Thanks.

Lee San who offer the Tru-Design plastic fittings have offered a 10% discount on all their products to members of this forum.

Enter KARL10 as a voucher code at checkout. They will deliver outside UK if necessary (I have no connection with this compant but I feel its always worthwhile asking for a deal!)
Stewart

[dawntreader]

Yngmar
That's great info. Thanks.

Lee San who offer the Tru-Design plastic fittings have offered a 10% discount on all their products to members of this forum.

Enter KARL10 as a voucher code at checkout. They will deliver outside UK if necessary (I have no connection with this compant but I feel its always worthwhile asking for a deal!)
Stewart

Stewart,
I tried the code but no joy?

[tiger79]

As it's over a year later, perhaps the code has expired.

[dawntreader]

I'll ask them again for one for forum members then 



Update: Please use promotion code KARL16 for 10% discount   

NB: Lee San quote: "All seacock kits are bundled by ourselves here to create kits from Tru Design parts. All seacock kits include a long thread tail hosetail. "

[dawntreader]

I went for the 38mm 90 deg kit. This is what you get:

• Hosetail (long thread)
• Ball Valve
• Through-hull Skin Fitting
• Skin Fitting Install Tool

Very pleased 

[Ziffius]

Anyone know the size of seacock on the heads water/flush inlet for a Bav39 2005/6?

[Salty]

The seacocks were 1 1/2" BSP for head and holding tank outlet and 3/4" BSP for everything else (galley/head sink, shower sump, toilet intake) with hose tails 38mm and 19mm respectively. Galley had straight tails, heads all 90° ones. If you get Tru-Design, make sure you get the "Long Thread" tails.

In fact, here's my order list:

Code Select Expand

Description Tru-Design # Bainbridge #
Skin Fitting Installation Tool 90782
Load Bearing Collar (small) 90856
Load Bearing Collar (medium) 90857
Ball Valve (manual) 3/4" BSP 90276 Q133700
Ball Valve (manual) 1 1/2" BSP 90235 Q133703
Skin Fitting Threaded (white) 3/4" BSP 90432 Q133722
Skin Fitting Threaded (white) 1 1/2" BSP 90419 Q133725
Nut backing 3/4" BSP 90482 Q135025
Nut backing 1 1/2" BSP 90488 Q135028
Tail Long Thread 90° 1 1/2" BSP to 38mm Hose 90375 Q133778
Tail Long Thread 90° 3/4" BSP to 19mm Hose 90372 Q133775


[/quote]



My B36/2002 uses the same size fittings as on Yngmar's boat, so I reckon that probably the boats all use the same size fittings, and particularly because the size of the fittings to which the plumbing connects is not dependent on boat size but more dependent on the size the plumbing manufacturer made the fittings.

[Ziffius]

Cheers for that Salty

[dawntreader]

The seacocks were 1 1/2" BSP for head and holding tank outlet and 3/4" BSP for everything else (galley/head sink, shower sump, toilet intake) with hose tails 38mm and 19mm respectively. Galley had straight tails, heads all 90° ones. If you get Tru-Design, make sure you get the "Long Thread" tails.

In fact, here's my order list:

Code Select Expand

Description Tru-Design # Bainbridge #
Skin Fitting Installation Tool 90782
Load Bearing Collar (small) 90856
Load Bearing Collar (medium) 90857
Ball Valve (manual) 3/4" BSP 90276 Q133700
Ball Valve (manual) 1 1/2" BSP 90235 Q133703
Skin Fitting Threaded (white) 3/4" BSP 90432 Q133722
Skin Fitting Threaded (white) 1 1/2" BSP 90419 Q133725
Nut backing 3/4" BSP 90482 Q135025
Nut backing 1 1/2" BSP 90488 Q135028
Tail Long Thread 90° 1 1/2" BSP to 38mm Hose 90375 Q133778
Tail Long Thread 90° 3/4" BSP to 19mm Hose 90372 Q133775
Spanner Ball Valve 3/4" 90477
Spanner Ball Valve 1 1/2" 90478 Q133791



Yngmar, what did you use (recommend) to seal the threads?

[Yngmar]

Yngmar, what did you use (recommend) to seal the threads?

Sikaflex (291i or 292 - I forget) for the through-hull and ball valve connecting to it. PTFE tape for the tailpipes.

No problems at all with the Sikaflex part, but the PTFE tape I can only recommend for the straight tailpipes. If you have 90° ones, they tend to rotate when attaching the hose and then can leak ever so slightly (well, one of five does - a drip a day, but annoying). So I will have to undo that one again and will probably use an adhesive sealant to lock it into place and seal it.

[dawntreader]

Yngmar,
Thanks for that - I had already planned to use Sikaflex and PTFE - it was the apparent weakness of the thread connections that concerned me. I may look towards one of the Boss sealants as an option too, with Boss White looking like a suitable product.
Jim

[Markus]

I've replaced all of my 15 year old skin fittings and ball valves last year with Tru-Design plastic ones. The old looked similar to yours, although not quite as bad.

Very happy with the plastic ones, no metal, no worries - I've painted Coppercoat right into the inside of them just shy of the ball, so no fouling either.

I realize I am hijacking a very old thread here, the relation to this is that I believe the picture above is from Ocean 40 galley skin fittings. I am also replacing all of the original skin fittings to Truedesign on my Ocean 40. I am just wondering what is the point on having two skin fittings for two galley sinks next to each other? I would be tempted to just laminate one hole shut and perhaps go up one size for the other skin fitting and have a Y-connector for the sink drains, which would result in one hole less in the hull and a few parts less to purchase. I remember seeing this done in other boats so I suppose there's no clear downsides, or...?

[tckearney]

My boat is B42 and twenty years old.  I have no idea if these fittings have been changed.  I bought it at 15 years old.    The previous owner seemed to be meticulous in his maintenance, I can tell by the modifications that have been made and the parts that have been renewed.  However I can't tell if these valves have been replaced.  I'll have a look next lift out.   Is there any signs in the bronze I could definitely look for, either from inside or after it is out of the water.   There is a bit of rust steaks but I assumed it from the jubilee clips. 

Thanks for the pics Yngmar I have already looked up the UK supplier and will think about the plastic type . 

[tckearney]

 My boat is B42 and twenty years old.  I have no idea if these fittings have been changed.  I bought it at 15 years old.    The previous owner seemed to be meticulous in his maintenance, I can tell by the modifications that have been made and the parts that have been renewed.  However I can't tell if these valves have been replaced.  I'll have a look next lift out.   Is there any signs in the bronze I could definitely look for  There is a bit of rust steaks but I assumed it from the jubilee clips. 
Thanks for the pics Yngmar I have already looked up the UK supplier and will think about the plastic type . 

[Markus]

Is there any signs in the bronze I could definitely look for, either from inside or after it is out of the water.   

If you abrade the outside of the skin fitting with a sand paper you can see if it is yellow or if there's some pink areas which is a sign of zinc loss in the fitting.

I fully think that going plastic (Trudesign) is the way to go.

[Symphony]

My boat is B42 and twenty years old.  I have no idea if these fittings have been changed.  I bought it at 15 years old.    The previous owner seemed to be meticulous in his maintenance, I can tell by the modifications that have been made and the parts that have been renewed.  However I can't tell if these valves have been replaced.  I'll have a look next lift out.   Is there any signs in the bronze I could definitely look for  There is a bit of rust steaks but I assumed it from the jubilee clips. 
Thanks for the pics Yngmar I have already looked up the UK supplier and will think about the plastic type .

bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php/topic,2878.0.html

You might find this useful. There is a lot of "myth" surrounding seacocks. Bavarias, and most other European boats use brass fittings and seacocks, some chrome plated. They have done for many, many years with very few problems, despite the material not being deemed suitable for use in seawater because they potentially dezincify because of galvanic action. However in practice this is rare, mainly because the vulnerable parts are not actually exposed to seawater, except as I noted in the end fittings, particularly the hose tails. More common is seizure of the ball valve, but this is nothing to do with the material of the body, or the handle and spindle corroding. This is mostly related to lack of use, that is not operating the valve periodically.

Bob's boat is similar age to yours and as you can see the valves and fittings were mostly sound except dezincification in the threads. On my old boat, similar age, I changed the loo outlet after 8 years because it had seized, but found it and the fittings otherwise sound.

Even if the fittings do dezincify they are unlikely to fail in normal use. Where they are vulnerable is if they get stressed, for example by something heavy hitting the valve or hosetail. Most of the valves in a Bavaria are in well protected locations so this is unlikely to happen in normal use.

Having said all that I think you should consider replacing all the valves and fittings that are underwater. The choice is between metal and composite (Tru Design). The latter is a bit more expensive and involves a bit more work. Metal valves and fittings are direct replacements for the existing, but it is important to use only those labeled DZR (Dezincification Resistant) or bronze. DZR is now widely available and is clearly marked as such. Bronze is more expensive and now, because of the availability of DZR not so easy to find. Both are equally corrosion resistant.

[tckearney]

Thanks symphony very informative and as an engineer it is just what I woulod expect.  I have attached a photo of the aft loo.  the fwd loo looks the same only it has got a lot of mildue and Im embarassed to show that !!!  What do you think are these original ?

[tckearney]

and another pic

[Symphony]

They look nice and clean. The green is normal, product of damp on brass which is of course a copper alloy. The whole of the bottom of my boat is that colour from the copper in the Coppercoat!