Adding a winch.

Sootydog · July 09 2022, 15:53

I am considering fitting an extra winch to our Bav 39 Cruiser 2008. I want to winch in the furling foresail. The current winches dont quite line up correctly with the furling line. So the question, are the two flat (ish) spots close to the rear of the cockpit intended to site extra winches? If they are, do they need extra mechanical support or is there a metal backing plate already fitted? Seems like a simple job, is it?

Thanks.

JEN-et-ROSS · July 09 2022, 16:06

I don't think it's a very good idea to try to winch in the genoa reefing line...
Far too easy to unintentionally put a load on it that it can't take..
This would be particularly true if a jam occurred on the drum or elsewhere, thus causing the line to part under the mammoth loads that the winch could effortlessly inflict....
I know it's pain to reef it in by hand in a moderate to strong breeze but you have 'feel' so it would be obvious if something was snarled up.........
Best to just roll up your sleeves...

Yngmar · July 09 2022, 18:32

Yep, those empty areas are for a set of secondary winches, probably Harken 32s if someone ordered the option from new. On our boat they have a glassed in aluminium plate, so just a matter of drilling holes in the right spot and tapping a thread into them. Almost certainly your boat will be the same. Squeeze some waterproof grease in before the bolts to prevent water seep and corrosion between alu plate and stainless bolts (grease in a syringe is very handy).

As for using it to furl the headsail, I'm with JEN-et-ROSS, wouldn't do that. Try furling from the foredeck where the furling line exits the drum directly for a test. If that works easy, then the problem is friction in the line being led aft. Can usually be improved a lot with better leads/turning blocks.

Sootydog · July 09 2022, 20:17

Thanks for the replies. So whats the best method to get it wrapped tightly and nice and flat in a bit of a breeze. I really struggle pulling the line with one hand whilst trying to control the jib sheets with the other and keep everything pointing into the wind.

Yngmar · July 09 2022, 20:29

The autopilot can keep the boat pointing wherever you like, but there's absolutely no reason to point into the wind to furl the headsail, it will furl fine at any point of sail. In fact we never put the boat head to wind for that (main is a different story).

Then the crew takes control of the working sheet and eases it out until it begins to lose power while I stand on the aft deck (centre cockpit) and pull the furling line. I look at the headsail to see if we're getting a good furl while she looks at me to see how much I'm grimacing, which tells her if it's going too hard and she needs to ease more or take a turn off the winch

On a good day, we've get the big 150% Genoa furled away in what I'm guessing is maybe around 30 seconds or less.

When doing it on my own, one hand has the working sheet to ease and the other the furling line to pull. Since the furling line has a turning block, I can have both lines at a 90 degree angle to each other, meaning I can pull on the furling line with both hands without letting go or losing control of the sheet. Takes a bit longer on my own as the process is less smooth, but works fine too. Probably this way it takes about a minute.

Sootydog · July 09 2022, 20:34

Sounds like I need more practice or a few hours in the gym. Perhaps I should leave some wind in the sail as my current method usually ends up with the clew flying around and hence a poor wrap.

Laysula · July 09 2022, 21:38

One thing I did on mine which made a huge difference was to replace the 8mm furling line with 10mm and de core the first nine metres or so. The flat line dosen't tend to dig under on the drum and the larger diameter makes the rope easier to handle.

symphony2 · July 09 2022, 22:55

The other thing worth doing is to change the leaf blocks on the stanchions to better ones with less friction. I used the Harken double type and also fitted a Harken jamming block instead of the simple jammer that Bavaria fit

JEN-et-ROSS · July 10 2022, 08:37

Quote from: Laysula on July 09 2022, 21:38
One thing I did on mine which made a huge difference was to replace the 8mm furling line with 10mm and de core the first nine metres or so. The flat line dosen't tend to dig under on the drum and the larger diameter makes the rope easier to handle.

We use a different method but with the same goal in mind..
To help prevent the reefing line from 'digging under' on the drum, we've placed a ratchet block on the reefing line just before it enters the cockpit...
So when hauling the line in to reef the genoa the block turns easily, but conversely when deploying the sail the block won't turn, so automatically creating some friction/tension on the line to avoid loose turns on the drum and so achieve a tighter drum, so much less chance of a jam when reefing............

Sootydog · July 10 2022, 10:19

Jen-et-Ross,
I like the idea of a ratchet block. Could you please explain how / where it is fitted. A photo would be great if you are able.

Many Thanks.

JEN-et-ROSS · July 10 2022, 12:08

Hi Sootydog...
As the reefing line leaves the furling drum it passes through normal turning blocks at the base of each stanchion on the port side.
The last block is the ratchet block situated almost abeam the helm on the side deck .
Having it quite far back ensures that the reefing line has to be redirected through at least 270 deg, this angle provides the best friction when deploying the sail....
It means as the genoa deploys it's not absolutely necessary to keep tension on it as a 'loose drum' is unlikely to occur....
I hope that helps.........Bill.

Sootydog · July 10 2022, 12:16

Bill, thanks, that's a really clear explanation. It's my new "first job on the list"

Brian · July 20 2022, 17:34

Unlike all the doom mongers above, I have fitted an electric winch to help furl the Genoa and used it very successfully for the last 5 years with no problems whatsoever. This has allowed us to continue sailing well into our 70s. I have a very large Genoa on my 44 and would find it very difficult to furl in anything greater than a gentle breeze. Anything that allows you to continue the enjoyment of sailing should be encouraged.

symphony2 · July 20 2022, 22:32

Not doom mongering at all - the OP has a much smaller boat with a much smaller foresail and it is quite possible to make the sort of changes suggested to handling the furling line such that it does not need winching. Of course there is a point at which the loads do become such that winching is needed but worth trying the low cost ways of improvement first.